Interview with Shaykh Nazim: Bayat, Kissing of Hands, Touching Women, Islamic Clothes... 01.01.1997

Q: Many oppose to people taking bayat with you. If we have given our bayat to the Prophet*, why do we have to give it to you too?

S.N: Who are we giving our bayat to? Like the Sahaba we have Prophet Muhammad* in front of us. We have been ordered to give our oath to true people, to a Sheikh.

Q: Is it a necessity in Islam to give your bayat to a Sheikh, like the sahabas after the passing away of Muhammad* gave their bayat to Abu Bakr Siddiq?

S.N: Yes! Until 1924 every Muslim would give their oath to the Sultan, who was representing the Prophet*.

Q: Is this like when the Prophet* told us that when there are 3 or more of us we should elect an emir?

S.N: No, an emir is something else. Not everyone we call an emir is an emir. A real emir must have power. Emir means a sultan, a shadow of Heavens on earth. You must give your oath to him. You must obey, that is what bayat means.

Q: Who are the inheritors of the Prophet*? The people with Islamic knowledge?

S.N: That is not enough. It has to do with spirituality.

Q: Do the followers of the Sheikh have to follow him blindly?

S.N: Never blindly! The Prophet* had open eyes and his followers must too!

Q: Many people think that having bayat with is a Sheikh is like following a dictator.

S.N: When you take a plane, you also put your trust into the pilot. You wouldn't think of telling him how to do it. The same with doctors, people do whatever the doctors tell them to. If you had eyes that could see everything, you wouldn't need a Sheikh. We want to open the eyes of our people, not make them blind.

Q: People object on your hands being kissed.

S.N: I am not a sultan. Let people go and kiss their hands! These people are envious, because they are not giving full respect to their Lord. If they were, people would respect them. Maybe I am respected in the Divine Presence and that is why people run up to me. I am not begging people to come up to me and to kiss my hands! They rush on me from all over the world and I do not tell them to go away. Why should I? Are my hands dirty? If they were I would prevent it.

But the hands of the people who oppose this are dirty with their dirty works. When people come close to a blessed person they feel familiarity and want to kiss and embrace. When a person wants to show their respect by kissing the hand it is not prohibited in the Islamic Shariah. No-one can bring any evidence that Muhammad* did not allow it.

Q: But not only men are kissing your hand, but women too. Is that allowed in Islam?

S.N: Do they have evidence on that? If that was prohibited we would not be allowed to approach our women. They have no fiqr. (Quran, Surat 4, Ayat 43 and Surat 5, Ayat 6). You may touch.

Q: For the mahram, or...?

S.N: ...an Nissa, is alif lam a sign for all women, or just for some? There is a secret reality there: You can touch a lady, but if your ego awakes with a bad desire it is prohibited. A person may touch his daughter or his mother and it is not prohibited. He may touch his wife and it could be prohibited. Nothing awakes in a person with his mahram, but if it is not a mahram it is dangerous. That is why the Shariah prevents you to touch without a reason. Otherwise a doctor couldn't touch the body of a woman. No-one objects to the millions of ladies who every day go to the doctor and show everything. It did not exist at the time of the Prophet*. When they give birth they show themselves completely! How can that be? Why do people not complain about that? Instead they come to me, a person who is 80 years old!

The Shariah does give the permission for the hands of prophets and their inheritors to be kissed. I do not tell the ladies to come and kiss my hand. No! They come to give their respects. I cannot refuse it, because I am calling Europeans, non Muslims, into Islam. They are still new and if I would prevent them from kissing my hand their hearts would be broken. They would accuse Islam of having no gentleness. We are not living in Saudi Arabia, Libya, Algeria, Turkey, Iran or in Pakistan! I am calling people here, in Europe. This is why we can use the methods which the Prophet* was using at the beginning of Islam. People at that time were also not using scarves. For the first 13 years in Mecca, they were mixing freely with men and not wearing scarves. All that came in Medina. The people who are accusing me of these points have no understanding of Islam. They are scholars, but empty!

Q: According to the Hanafi school what are the rules of a woman touching you without desires? Would you need an ablution?

S.N: All the four schools of thought were going to agree on this point, but then Imam Shafi prevented it. He wanted to close the door of fitna which arises through young people touching each other. Abu Hanifa gave the permission under a condition: if your feelings do not change and become haram, it is all right. If they do, it is prohibited in the school of Abu Hanifa too. When feelings change, our body awakens and we discharge, making our wudu invalid.

Q: Why are people so attracted to you?

S.N: They are spiritually attracted because their souls are swimming in the same pool as my soul: in the ocean of mercy. Their souls are familiar to me. I have been with them since the Day of Promises, whether they are aware of it, or not. I am reaching to every sultan on earth now, because their time is approaching. All presidents will come down. In the 21st century presidents, democracy and parliaments will go. The sultans will come. This has been written in all the Holy Books: the Old Testament, the New Testament and the Holy Quran.

Q: Many people say that Islam does not have to be demonstrated in your clothes, that it is better to have it in your heart.

S.N: These people are fully foolish! They are making propaganda for the satanic school. Why do armies keep their uniform? If clothes were not important, tell the generals to start wearing civil clothing instead or the Pope or the Patriarch. Do you think it has no meaning? Why are only Muslims getting these silly questions?

Q: People say that if the Prophet* would come today, he would be wearing the clothes of today; jeans and a suit.

S.N: Jeans are very unhealthy clothes. The traditional Muslim clothes are very healthy. But people do not understand such things. They want to follow fashion, and they want to prepare all other Muslims to do the same, to follow their ugly fashions! We do not need to follow any body's fashion. We have our own originality and our own tradition in our way of dressing and in everything else too. Only weak people need to follow powerful people. We are honoured to have our own way of dressing. If people have a job where it is necessary to wear another style, that is all right. At the time of the Sultan someone came and asked the Grand Mufti: "I just bought a cow, and every time I come to milk it, it refuses, because it was accustomed to the old owner who was always wearing a hat. Would you permit me to wear a hat during the time I milking?" "Yes, as long as you are milking, it is all right!" So this applies to all Muslims living in non Muslim countries.

Q: Harvard University is making a research into the suggestion that the 21st century will be a century of spiritualism.

S.N: Harvard University is a serious university. They are looking into a very important point. But how are they doing it? The target is like an island in the ocean. In front of them are Christianity, Judaism and Islam. All of them have vessels, but the vessel of Christianity is 2000 years old, the vessel of Judaism 4000 years old, the Islamic one is the newest one. If you had to choose for a long and dangerous travelling, would you use the oldest or the newest vessel? That is the question I would like to raise to the people of Harvard! They must accept the newest vessel which is most intact, powerful and strongest, not the rusty old ones.