Bismillahi Al-Rahmani Al-Rahim

 Raising The Hands Between Prostrations (2)
Q
 As-Salaamu 'Alaikum brother,

A few questions regarding GF Haddad's involvement in teaching us the Hanbali Fiqh,

1)       How much of an authority is GF Haddad on the Hanbali Mathhab, while he himself is a Shafi'i? Surely, there is extensive discussion on this issue in nearly all the books of Furoo of the Math-hab, which makes it needless to quote solely from him.

2)       Is it appropriate to even mention someone's conclusion, without any criticism, that raising the hands between the two prostrations is bid'ah? When we know that according to another narration from Abu 'Abdillah, one may raise his hands upon every ascent and descent? This also being the selected position of ibn al-Manjaa (as far as I remember, as mentioned in al-Mubdi), and when was the Ijma ever formed and who claimed that Ijma that, such is not to be done, and hence to practice that is a Bid'ah?

3)       Being a Shafi'i what would GF Haddad say about Ibn Hajr may Allah be merciful to him and illuminate his grave who inclines towards raising the hands during every descent and ascent in his master piece, al-Fath?

4)       Surely the Raajih in the Math-hab, as well as most widely held opinion amongst the past as well as the present Hanabilah, from Sham to Najd, as well as the selected opinion of Ibn Taymiyah, is that hands are not to be raised except at the beginning, and before and after Rukoo. However, isn't labelling this action to be a Bid'ah is somewhat a harsh verdict, considering the points above?

Was-Salaamu 'Alaikum

 A
As-Salaamu 'Alaikum brother,

wa `alaykum al-salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
A few questions regarding GF Haddad's involvement in teaching us the Hanbali Fiqh,

1)       How much of an authority is GF Haddad on the Hanbali Mathhab, while he himself is a Shafi'i? Surely, there is extensive discussion on this issue in nearly all the books of Furoo of the Math-hab, which makes it needless to quote solely from him.

The message in question is this
Hanbal ibn Ishaq said: I heard Abu `Abd Allah as a man asked him about the raising of hands during Salat, he replied: "It is narrated from Rasulillah sallallahu `alayhi wa Alihi wa Sallam with several chains and from his Companions that they did it upon opening the prayer, before bowing in ruku`, and upon raising the head after ruku`." I said to him: "What about between the two sajdas?" He said: "No." Source: al-`Ulaymi, al-Manjah al-Ahmad 1:115-116.
The most complete treatment Ive seen of the weakness of the reports pertaining to raf` between the sajdatayn is in al-`Iraqi's Tarh al-Tathrib. Dr. Nur al-Din `Itr says it is the act of the people of bid`a to insist on doing it after consensus has formed that it is not done. WAllahu a`lam.
(From the Hanbali list, dated Tue, 11 Mar 2003 17:54:28 +0200, Subject: Raising The Hands Between Prostrations)
B rother GF Haddad wrote this in response to a previous message on the list, namely
I have not been able to find anything that advocates raising the hands before coming up to from bowing. It certainly is not the official position of the late madhhab, since this means associating raising the hands for the third rak`ah, and because doing so would requires sitting in order to do it before standing. Both ideas are contrary to the official position.
As for some evidence about raising the hands:
1. Imams Al-Bukhari and Muslim included the following in their compilations of rigorously authenticated hadiths, and it is also found in the reamining seven major collections of hadith
It is narrated on the authority of `Abd Allah bin `Omar (Allah be pleased with them both) that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) would raise his hands parallel to his shoulders when beginning the prayer. And when said Allahu akbar when bowing and when raising his head from bowing he would also raise them the same way and say Allah hears whomever praises Him. [O,] our Lord: to all praise is Yours! And he did not do this during prostration.
2. And in a narration from the Companion Abu Humaid (Allah be pleased with him) found in Abu Dawud's Sunnan there is
...he would raise his hands until making them parallel to his shoulders and then say Allahu akbar...
3. And in Muslim's Sahih, on the authority of Malik bin Al-Huwarith (Allah be pleased with him) there is a hadith similar to Ibn `Omar's (Allah be pleased with them both) listed above, however here he said
...[he would raise his hands] until making them parallel to his ear lobes...
These three hadiths are in Ibn Hajar's Bulugh al-maram. They are hadiths 290-92 in in some editions (Dar Ibn Kathir), while 273-75 in others (Nur al-Din `Itr's commentary).
These hadiths are the evidence for the Shafi`i and Hanbali madhhabs in raising the hands when beginning the prayer, when going down to bow, and when coming up from it. This has been narrated from some fifty of the Companions (Allah be pleased with them one and all), and is considered mutawatur [mass transmission]. The Shafi`is add raising the hands upon coming up to the third rak`a.
These hadiths are clear evidence that the hands should not be raised in between the two prostrations, something that the four living schools of Ahl al-Sunnah agree on. Ibn Hazam (may Allah have mercy upon him) and some contemporaries claim that the hands should be raised in between prostrations. They cite hadiths narrated by Imam Ahmad on the authority of Wa'il ibn Hajr (Allah be pleased with him):
"...He would raise his hands whenever he said Allahu akbar", raised up, put down, and between the two sajdahs"
Al-Tahtawi on the authority of Ibn `Omar (Allah be pleased with them both)
"...He would raise his hands each time he descended, ascended, bowed, prostrated, stood up, sat, and between the two sajdahs"
and Al-Daraqutni on the authority of Abu Hurayrah (Allah be pleased with him)
"...He would raise his hands every time he descended or ascended"
The vast majority of scholars considered these hadiths to be weak and did not used them as evidence since these hadiths clearly contradict rigorously authenticated hadiths.
Other than Ibn Hazm, I have no idea what sort of precedence they cite and what evidence they have.
And Allah knows best.
[Sources used: Al-Furu`, Al-Salsabil fi ma`rifat al-dalil, Al-`Uddah, Bulugh al-maram, `Ilam al-anam]
A ll GF Haddad has done is complement what I already wrote. The first paragraph of his message concerns textual evidence, as does the first sentence of the second paragraph. Here the author's madhhab--whether it be GF Haddad providing us with this information or the sources cited--is a moot point. The only sentence that one could possibly be offended with is the final sentence
Dr. Nur al-Din `Itr says it is the act of the people of bid`a to insist on doing it after consensus has formed that it is not done. WAllahu a`lam
w here GF Haddad quotes Dr. Nur al-Din `Itr, a contemporary Damascene hadith scholar who is a Hanafi. Throughout history scholar have seen no problem with quoting outside of their madhhab. Why stop this tradition?

So:

Your first objection where you question GF Haddad being an authority on the Hanbali madhhab is moot because his post was not about Hanbali fiqh. In addition, while GF Haddad is not an authority in Hanbali fiqh, his work with hadith has given him familiarity with the history of the madhhab and its notables. It is this work that allowed him to find the text that he did: an account of Hanbal narrating from Imam Ahmad himself. Several of the earliest messages on the list were biographies compiled and translated by GF Haddad. No objection was raised to them, so why is there one now?

And your second objection where you assert that GF Haddad has been made the sole authority on the discussion is simply false since Hanbali sources were given in a previous messages, specifically: Al-Furu`, Al-Salsabil fi ma`rifat al-dalil, and Al-`Uddah.
2)       Is it appropriate to even mention someone's conclusion, without any criticism, that raising the hands between the two prostrations is bid'ah? When we know that according to another narration from Abu 'Abdillah, one may raise his hands upon every ascent and descent? This also being the selected position of ibn al-Manjaa (as far as I remember, as mentioned in al-Mubdi), and when was the Ijma ever formed and who claimed that Ijma that, such is not to be done, and hence to practice that is a Bid'ah?

We cited our sources. You should do likewise.

GF Haddad wrote
Dr. Nur al-Din `Itr says it is the act of the people of bid`a to insist on doing it after consensus has formed that it is not done. WAllahu
a`lam
T he assertion here is that insisting on doing it is a bid`a, not that the practice is a bid`a. Dr. Nur al-Din `Itr is correct in saying what he did because the four schools agree that it is not done there, something which the Hanafis refer to as ijma`.
3)       Being a Shafi'i what would GF Haddad say about Ibn Hajr may Allah be merciful to him and illuminate his grave who inclines towards raising the hands during every descent and ascent in his master piece, al-Fath?

Your objection to GF Haddad not being an authority on Hanbali fiqh applies equally to Ibn Hajr (may Allah be merciful with him). You should be consistent. Since Al-Bukhari tends to mention the same hadith repeatedly, you could at least show GF Haddad some courtesy by giving a specific citation.
4)       Surely the Raajih in the Math-hab, as well as most widely held opinion amongst the past as well as the present Hanabilah, from Sham to Najd, as well as the selected opinion of Ibn Taymiyah, is that hands are not to be raised except at the beginning, and before and after Rukoo. However, isn't labelling this action to be a Bid'ah is somewhat a harsh verdict, considering the points above?

Once again: GF Haddad wrote
Dr. Nur al-Din `Itr says it is the act of the people of bid`a to insist on doing it after consensus has formed that it is not done. WAllahu
a`lam
T he assertion here is that insisting on doing it is a bid`a, not that the practice itself is a bid`a.

As for the issue of whether or not it is a bid`ah, provide us with hadiths that establish the performance of raising the hands between prostrations that are at least as strong as the hadiths that do not mention it or that negate it. Or better yet: open Al-Tarh wa tathrib and see for yourself what scholars have said about their chains of transmission and how they are reconciled with other evidence.

Please allow me to remind you of something that was sent to me (ref: 03:58 PM 1/25/2003 +0200)
5)       Surely, if you really want to win the hearts of a people, you cannot possibly do that by demonstrating hostile attitude towards them or slamming them in every other post. This confirms what the Prophet SallAllahu 'Alaihi wa-sallam said: Whenever gentleness is in something it does nothing but beautifies it, and whenever harshness is in something, it does nothing but makes it ugly. Yes, I know you have been (as I have been) at the receiving end of some Dhahiris (who call themselves Salafis), but we are still required to demonstrate the best of manners and patience, and Allah knows best.

One common criticism that non-madhhabists have against the madhhabs is madhhab-centric chauvinism and zealotry. Anyone who thumbs through the books of the Hanbalis will quickly see how often they cite the other Imams and their respect for them. This is one of the beautiful characteristics of the Hanbali madhhab. Why should this characteristic be abandoned, and why should we bend to this faulty view of the non-madhhabists regarding Islam and its scholarship?

And to quote the wise author of the previously quoted email
I only intended to mention these points because I love you for the sake of Allah, no ill feelings InshaaAllah.

wa al-salamu `alaykum
--musa

P.S. The Hanafi list posts quite a bit of content from the translated works of Sheikh `Abd al-Qadir al-Jaylani. Have you written to him, questioning what business Sheikh `Abd al-Qadir has on a Hanafi list?